Curse

Schorny · Aug 08, 2005, 04:29 PM // 16:29

A good team will adopt to what you bring. If you nuke them with AoE, they will spread out. If you don't bring anything like that, they may stay together.

As I said: your strategy relies on them stick together. But why would they do it, when they see you have good counters against that?

I'm just saying that your strategy lacks variation. It may be good against a team that will always stick together - but every good ranger team I was in adopted to the enemies strategy and spread out or sticked together.

And that is all I say: you also need some strategy what to do when they spread out. Because a team that sticks together can be beaten easily with the right weapons.

Kaylee Ann · Aug 08, 2005, 04:31 PM // 16:31

KCHS = Kansas City Hot Steppers

They are a sub-par guild that are known for bringing spirit spam to tombs.

Xellos · Aug 08, 2005, 05:35 PM // 17:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

KCHS = Kansas City Hot Steppers

They are a sub-par guild that are known for bringing spirit spam to tombs.

Kaylee Ann's calling you out KCHS! Gee Vee Gee, Gee Vee Gee, aw crap observer modes not in yet.

Tellani Artini · Aug 08, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

KCHS would lose, Kaylee was dead on

Most of the half-decent players left when I said we weren't spirit-spamming tombs anymore, and when we realized spirit spam doesn't have enough mobility for GvG..

Thomasuwoo · Aug 09, 2005, 03:59 AM // 03:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaylee Ann

KCHS = Kansas City Hot Steppers
They are a sub-par guild that are known for bringing spirit spam to tombs.

Exactly the sort of team these 2 characters would tear apart.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schorny

A good team will adopt to what you bring. If you nuke them with AoE, they will spread out. If you don't bring anything like that, they may stay together.

As I said: your strategy relies on them stick together. But why would they do it, when they see you have good counters against that?

I'm just saying that your strategy lacks variation. It may be good against a team that will always stick together - but every good ranger team I was in adopted to the enemies strategy and spread out or sticked together.

And that is all I say: you also need some strategy what to do when they spread out. Because a team that sticks together can be beaten easily with the right weapons.

I already replied to this. Once they spread out they can't use healing spring which is the main reason people want this nerfed. What the spirt spammers tend to do is wall themselfs behind spirts and then heal them with springs so you can't get past. They then smite, shoot etc past them. Edge will bring down the wall and in the case of the super cheap spirt circle they don't even have the option to run away.
This Healing spring plus walled spirts seems to be what everybody thinks is unbeatable. Fear me and some AOE dmg they can't remove with natures renewal is a great counter to this that doesn't require you to make a build JUST to beat this. That's what I made this post about.
Once they spread out who know's what they're going to do? It's up to your team to keep them in disarray and hit them where it hurts. Six unaccoutned plerys is hardly me "lacking in variation." I gave you grounds to get started. Bring distracting shot, leach signet, or ANY interutps. Spirts take 5 secconds to cast. It's hardly difficult to interupt. If you can't work out what to do once they spread out and are at the disadvantage you don't desevre to beat them.

Shrapnel_Magnet · Aug 09, 2005, 04:08 AM // 04:08

I'm not trying to be an ass but I'm not a big fan of when people give credit where credit isn't due.

I have absolutely nothing against KCHS, so don't take this as an attack

It's just that KCHS doesn't really deserve credit as the team that made the Spirit Spam what it is... They neither invented nor made it popular.

Again, not an attack, just a statement. I'm sure KCHS is a fine guild and I don't see them claiming it as their own so they're not full of themselves... it's other people who misinterpret information.

ratatass · Aug 09, 2005, 04:37 AM // 04:37

The best way I think for beating a ranger heavy team....is

5 x W/mo (Gladiators) with a small self healing ability. Divide up Warriors on independent targets. Bring Bane Signet for all partymembers. 5 Warriors on the 5 rangers or in general the 5 damage dealers. Leave the monks alone. Beat up on your targets, charge your adrenaline...keep disrupting. Barrier or bond your monks.

then

One calls on the lowest health target, all hit Bane signet,since the range is enormous. If your lucky your target goes down. Their monks are strained too, but quite likely more than yours. Completely ignore the Spirits, unless altar map. Why Bane Signet ? Well doesn't care about their elemental armor.

Healers
Use Divine, Divine, Boon, Reversal, Energy Drain healers.

The idea is to cut the head of the worm. The main idea is that 5 Warriors should last a little bit longer than the rangers.

Ratatass

Phades · Aug 09, 2005, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

I already replied to this. Once they spread out they can't use healing spring which is the main reason people want this nerfed. What the spirt spammers tend to do is wall themselfs behind spirts and then heal them with springs so you can't get past. They then smite, shoot etc past them. Edge will bring down the wall and in the case of the super cheap spirt circle they don't even have the option to run away.
This Healing spring plus walled spirts seems to be what everybody thinks is unbeatable. Fear me and some AOE dmg they can't remove with natures renewal is a great counter to this that doesn't require you to make a build JUST to beat this. That's what I made this post about.
Once they spread out who know's what they're going to do? It's up to your team to keep them in disarray and hit them where it hurts. Six unaccoutned plerys is hardly me "lacking in variation." I gave you grounds to get started. Bring distracting shot, leach signet, or ANY interutps. Spirts take 5 secconds to cast. It's hardly difficult to interupt. If you can't work out what to do once they spread out and are at the disadvantage you don't desevre to beat them.

The rangers do not have to stand on the springs in order for the springs to serve their purpose and heal the spirits. Also killing some of the spirits does not neccacarially hinder the spirit team. Killing all of them can, but you still have to stop them from putting out more. The stopping them from dropping the spirits in the first place is the main point of contention here. Considering what actually interupts the laying down of a spirit or a trap, it can be hard to interupt them.

Because they react dynamically and spread out, does not neccacarially mean that they will continue to spread out or not choose to regroup. You are thinking in too linear of terms here when others point out the obvious weaknesses to the methods you mentioned. You also do not address how the "strategy" overcomes their "tactics" employed. This leaves a huge hole in your alleged "counter". Many other builds and strategies have obvious counters within the game without having to bring several methods to achieve this.

Like i said earlier, it is a very different situation when a team is forced to be in an offensive position, opposed to a defensive position.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 09, 2005, 07:13 AM // 07:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

The rangers do not have to stand on the springs in order for the springs to serve their purpose and heal the spirits. Also killing some of the spirits does not neccacarially hinder the spirit team. Killing all of them can, but you still have to stop them from putting out more. The stopping them from dropping the spirits in the first place is the main point of contention here. Considering what actually interupts the laying down of a spirit or a trap, it can be hard to interupt them.

Because they react dynamically and spread out, does not neccacarially mean that they will continue to spread out or not choose to regroup. You are thinking in too linear of terms here when others point out the obvious weaknesses to the methods you mentioned. You also do not address how the "strategy" overcomes their "tactics" employed. This leaves a huge hole in your alleged "counter". Many other builds and strategies have obvious counters within the game without having to bring several methods to achieve this.

Like i said earlier, it is a very different situation when a team is forced to be in an offensive position, opposed to a defensive position.

They have to stand still for 2 secconds to drop a spring. Springs are mainly effective in large groups. It is easily interupted. They can They have to stop for 5 Secconds to drop a sprit. If you disable their oath shot or dodge it they have to wait 20 secconds to try again. If you can't take advantage of any of this you're not a very good team.

I said it once I'll say it again if you can't beat them once they're on the move you don't deserve to win.

While could go the whole hog an make a team JUST to beat this team what would be the point? You go into the halls and hope you JUST run into this team? What I have suggested is a way to give you the upper hand on this team with a set of abilities that will also be useful on other teams as well. The Mind burn epedemic an easily be replaced though it's great for ranger armour that absorbs alot of elemental dmg.

If you can come up with a better stratagy then this please share your thoughts. And before you critizise it why don't you give it a go?

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 09, 2005, 08:10 AM // 08:10

Spring is no spell, so it isn't that easily interrupted. And normally there is more than one ranger setting the spring, so you've got to interrupt them all.

I see your points and some of them are solid and valid. But you presume too much for your "build" to work. It'll work against some of those teams, but once you play against the best users of the spirit spam, you're not going to beat them. Not with only 2 players committed to beating it at least.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 09, 2005, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mitsu Bishi

Spring is no spell, so it isn't that easily interrupted. And normally there is more than one ranger setting the spring, so you've got to interrupt them all.

I see your points and some of them are solid and valid. But you presume too much for your "build" to work. It'll work against some of those teams, but once you play against the best users of the spirit spam, you're not going to beat them. Not with only 2 players committed to beating it at least.

Spring is a skill, but it is EASILY INTERUPTED, it's in it's desciption. All you have to do is dmg that player with a phsical attack and it is interupted. that's why cyclone axe works quite well.

I'll YET AGAIN refer that I've only used two character slots and a few skills. I've yet to run into a spirt spamming team we couldn't beat. We've lost to a few but we've never had them tear us up. Most times we encounter them later and beat them anyway. We won the all 4 times again too. I'd say about 40% of the teams we faced were running spirts too.

Calnaion Blackhawk · Aug 09, 2005, 02:58 PM // 14:58

yea bring more warriors, more kills and easier wins w00t

and for the love of god, HEALING SPRING IS ****

its so easily disrupted and really doesnt ahve that much healing power ¬_¬

Phades · Aug 09, 2005, 08:39 PM // 20:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Spring is a skill, but it is EASILY INTERUPTED, it's in it's desciption. All you have to do is dmg that player with a phsical attack and it is interupted. that's why cyclone axe works quite well.

Either you are timing a ~10 second skill on a 60 second timer or all the "spirit" teams you face are bad ones.

Thomasuwoo · Aug 10, 2005, 02:38 AM // 02:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Either you are timing a ~10 second skill on a 60 second timer or all the "spirit" teams you face are bad ones.

Not sure what you're getting at there. Can you please elaborate?

Phades · Aug 10, 2005, 04:14 AM // 04:14

The use of warrior's cunning to relegate the defensive stances and other skills to prevent passivly the actual hit from occuring. If they are not protecting their ability use or interupting your casters, then they are bad teams.

Maltare · Aug 10, 2005, 04:23 AM // 04:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by Phades

Either you are timing a ~10 second skill on a 60 second timer or all the "spirit" teams you face are bad ones.

The later is probably most true.

But on an up note, if you organize right, wands interupt healing spring. That's how we do it.

Orochim4ru · Aug 11, 2005, 12:20 AM // 00:20

Mantra of resolve > all this interupting healing spring talk. Wards + healsprings + spirits = +64 armor (15 fertile 24 elements 25 harm) and 350 hp on every allied target, with huge constant heals and +1 energy per hit, as well as around -50% dmg from mantra. All in all, you deal around 20% dmg to this group. Chain lightning? deals 40 dmg, and that's not counting the bonus hp from fertile. Add watch yourself or shields up or any shout to make the def even more retarded. Cyclone/Fear me is the only thing that can break this with any regularity, and even then, that won't be easy with a spam of distractings on you.

Also, none of that defence is enchant, thus NR spam is still up.

And phades means that oathshot + serp + QZ = 10 seconds between spams.

Stuntastic · Aug 11, 2005, 09:29 AM // 09:29

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Time cosuming, Energy consuiming, Interuptable, Penty of ways to stop that. if u stop it once they can't try again for 60 secconds. And then you could just interput the conflag block the oath etc.

Just wanted to point out that oath shot recharges arcane mimicry so Greater Conflag can be spammed quite easily.

Barkroot Bonecrunch · Aug 11, 2005, 11:56 AM // 11:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomasuwoo

Exactly the sort of team these 2 characters would tear apart.

I already replied to this. Once they spread out they can't use healing spring which is the main reason people want this nerfed. What the spirt spammers tend to do is wall themselfs behind spirts and then heal them with springs so you can't get past. They then smite, shoot etc past them. Edge will bring down the wall and in the case of the super cheap spirt circle they don't even have the option to run away.
This Healing spring plus walled spirts seems to be what everybody thinks is unbeatable. Fear me and some AOE dmg they can't remove with natures renewal is a great counter to this that doesn't require you to make a build JUST to beat this. That's what I made this post about.
Once they spread out who know's what they're going to do? It's up to your team to keep them in disarray and hit them where it hurts. Six unaccoutned plerys is hardly me "lacking in variation." I gave you grounds to get started. Bring distracting shot, leach signet, or ANY interutps. Spirts take 5 secconds to cast. It's hardly difficult to interupt. If you can't work out what to do once they spread out and are at the disadvantage you don't desevre to beat them.

The problem with interupts is they can make spirits in teh starting zone and your still in your starting zone so how on earth are u supposed to distract them?

Mitsu Bishi · Aug 11, 2005, 02:40 PM // 14:40

Those spirits will die sooner or later, as long as you can keep them from spamming new ones, those few spirits won't bother you too much.